Interview 7
Kinger (pseudonymized) is 26 years old and high school graduate. He is single with 5 siblings and without a father. He has been in the scamming industry for 4 years. Kinger is a middle scammer: people work under him, and he also work under others.  The interview was conducted in a restaurant. 
Kinger understanding of illegality and immorality
Kinger believes that the different between illegality and immorality is the punishment of it. According to him, illegality is punished by law enforcement agencies and Immorality is punished by God. Kinger  believes that before something is considered to be illegal, it means that the same thing is immoral. According to him, The Quran instructs them to obey the laws of the country in which a person lives and that disobeying the law means acting immoral in the face of God. However, he believes that when immoral activities is reported to the law enforcement agencies then that immoral activity becomes illegal because the police or the law enforcement agencies will punish the perpetrator.
This question is tricky haha. I never think about it before.. I think that they are the same. Illegal and immoral? My brother they are the same ahaha… ok, you know that when something is illegal it means that is wrong and the country laws say that you shouldn’t do them. So if illegal things are wrong, it means that they are going to be immoral too. Because you know that when you do something wrong, in the religion we will say that what you did it immoral..but if you do that thing again, in the law we can say you do illegal thing…and also, you know that the Quran say that we should protect our country and follow the laws….so that means that if you do something illegal, it means that you don’t follow the law…and you know the religion say you should follow the law and you didn’t follow, so that is immoral… for example, if you do something wrong and nobody see you, it is still wrong and immoral. But if you do something and they report it to the police, it will be illegal… the only different is that, when we just say that something is illegal, it means that the police will arrest the person, but the immoral one, God will punish you for  that…
 He gave an example of stealing money from someone. According to him, when a person steals money and its reported to the Police, that person will be arrested by the police and the action will be described as illegal. On the other hand, if the same action is not reported to the police because maybe the person wasn’t caught, then God will punish the person and stealing at his point is considered as immoral. In conclusion, Kinger believes that bad actions can be illegal or immoral depending on whether the police or God is the one pushing the perpetrator. 
Kinger perspective on obeying the law or the moral codes
According to Kinger, it is very important to follow the law and the moral laws. According to him, the laws are constructed to guide human life so we can live in harmony. He however noted that, because of the imperfection of the society, human beings cannot always follow the law. Also, he mentioned that God is aware that human beings cannot always follow the law and that is why HE is ready to forgive us our sins when we commit them. According to him, God decided to create human beings imperfected for a reason. According to him, when a person breaks the law or the moral codes, the best thing to do is to pray to God for forgiveness. 
Like I said first, you know that that the laws are important and the moral one too is important.. so is good to follow all of them..but the problem is that, we can’t follow them all the time…. You know ahha… because so many bad things is happening in the society that is making people too to do illegal things or immoral things… sometimes if you don’t do the bad things, you can’t get money to eat because life is too hard… nobody will call you to come and collect chop money….even some Malams (religious leaders) say that human beings can’t never be in the world without doing immoral things because God created human being to do bad things. Even self, the malams say that only God is perfect but all human beings cannot be perfect… so we cannot live like God… That is why He…God. That is why God said that when you do something wrong, like immoral thing we are talking about, you should pray to Him and ask Him to forgive you…. So my brother, even though is good to follow the law, we can’t follow it all the time because of our nature..the only thing we can do now is that, when we do the wrong thing you pray to God and he will forgive you
Kinger perspectives on when to break the laws or moral codes
Kinger believes that the society will always lead people to commit sins or break the laws. According to him, sometimes people disobey the law out of vengeance. He gave an example of somebody killing another person’s family member. According to him, He will surely kill anybody who kills his father or mother. According to him, though he knows that killing is immoral and illegal but he will kill anybody will kills his family member. Another situation he mentioned is the case of economic status. He mentioned that, we are humans and we have the right to eat and to survive and that without money we cannot survive. According to him some people disobey the law in order to come money to feed themselves and their families.
I was already saying something, like there are many things that can just make you to do the do bad thing or cause sin.. I don’t know you understand me… let me give you some example… for instance, if somebody kill my father, or my mother or my sister, or just my family member, like my cousin, grandfather.. if the person kill any one in my family, I will also kill the person…. I am telling you brother, I will kill the person… yes, I know is illegal and the Quran say we should not kill but if somebody kill my family, I will kill the person too.. didn’t the person see the law before killing my family? I will also see the law and kill him back…yes, sometimes too, its money problem. Sometimes you don’t have money to eat, meanwhile, you have to right to eat but nobody will give you money..so that’s why some people will just do something bad to make money. Because they must survive……
 He mentioned the case of him as a scammer. According to him, he believes that scamming is immoral and illegal but he is scamming because he needs to feed himself and his family. According to him, without the scamming he can’t feed himself or his family because there are no jobs. Kinger also mentioned the case of drug use (tramadol etc). According to him, people including himself take tramadol because it helps them to accomplish something in life. He said, he takes drugs to help him get over stress and psychological problems; however, others take it to boost their sexual needs or even to forget about their worries. He mentioned that taking tramadol helps him to stop thinking about the negative consequences of scamming. He explained that, when he takes tramadol, the feeling of guilt varnishes.
Kinger opinion on why scam is immoral and illegal
Kinger believes that scamming is both immoral and illegal and that he is even going to stop it because he has gotten some money he believes he can start legitimate business with. According to him, scam is immoral because everything they do during scam is against what the Quran wants them to do. He mentioned that, they lie to white people about who they are. It is also immoral because they are stealing money from the white people. It is also bad because sometimes it leads some clients to kill themselves. According to him, it is also bad because if the white people they are stealing from don’t forgive them, God will punish them in the judgement day. According to him, if he had the power to stop everyone from scamming, he would have done it because he believes that the scam is affecting their religious values. 
My brother, I swear, scam is very bad, is illegal, is immora, is everything bad. Everything about it is bad my brother.. Because, 1) we lie to white people, which is bad.. Sometime you just pretend like you are a girl and use a girl picture and be chatting the white man.. in the first place, you are lying to the white man and that is a sin.. and 2) scamming is bad because we are stealing money from the clients…no, they are giving you the money for something you are lying about.,example, you can just tell a whiteman that you want him to give you money to buy flight ticket to visit him and he will give you that money..that is stealing because you will not go…. Even sometimes the client can kill himself because of the scam..that is too bad bro.. Me, I am even going to stop this scam because its dangerous… example, if your client don’t forgive you and you die, it means you are doing to hell when you die.. well, if a client forgive you, then you are lucky but brother, this scam, If I could stop all the guys from scamming, like I will do because its bad..but I no fit stop them, because they need to survive and I don’t have money to give them…Even Bill Gate can’t give all the Gameboys money hahahaah…..
According to him, religious leaders are not talking about the scam again because the scam has become something normal in the society. He mentioned that there’s nothing about scam that is morally right and that he is not comfortable feeding himself and his family with such money.
Kinger opinion about his clients
According to Kinger, clients are humans who have feelings like them (scammers) and that stealing from clients is not fun but he has no choice than to do that. According to him, scamming white people is better than scamming a black man because the white people have money and that perhaps the money they take from them (white people) cannot hurt them so much. He added that white people can easily forgive when you tell them the truth. He however, mentioned that scamming a black person is dangerous because he will never forgive you even if you tell him the truth. According to him, he doesn’t scam black people because he doesn’t think it makes sense to steal from somebody who is also struggle to feed himself and his family. According to him, if a white man is even poor, he or she will have enough to feed himself and his family and that scamming them (white) is relatively better. He noted that, though some people will steal scam black people, even people they know, he doesn’t do that. According to him, he has advised those who scam black people to stop it because its more immoral to steal from somebody who is also suffering. 
For me, my clients are just only white people…but some boys still scam blacks but I always tell them to get white people… because it doesn’t make sense to scam a black person.. How much will you get? Maybe the black person you are trying to scam is also suffering like you.. he don’t have money like you. Somebody who is still suffering to take care of his family..why will you scam him or her.. that is too bad….yes, but if a white person is poor, he will still be better than a black person. My brother, this white people, even sometime the money we take from them cannot make them to suffer. But if you take GHC100 from a black man, the person will die of hunger hahahaha.. he will curse your entire generation haha. But this white people, they can just forgive you when you tell them the truth.. So my brother is better to scam white people…….
Kinger gave a story about a client he decided to stop scamming after realizing that the client didn’t have enough money too. According to him, he was taking money from the client until he realized that the client didn’t have enough money and was also struggling and he (scammer) decided to stop taking money from the client. According to Kinger, the client bitterly complained that he wouldn’t have enough to feed himself if he (client) sends the $500 that the scammer requested. According to him, he felt really sorry for the client and didn’t want to continue with him. According to him, he didn’t want to stop talking to the client because he didn’t want to break his heart. According to him, he was still chatting with the client but reduce the frequency of their conversation until he (scammer) believed that the love in the client was reduced before he (scammer) left him. According to him, after realizing the client was poor, he (scammer) chatted with him for more than three months before he stopped.
Kinger opinions that sometimes a scammer can meet a client and wish that it wasn’t a scam but real relationship. According to him some clients are good people and you wish you met them a real life. Kinger gave a story about his last American client which made him to really want to stop the scamming. According to him, he was scamming a USA man until this man found out that it was a scam. According to him, the client asked him to tell him (client) the truth or he was never willing to send him (scammer) money again. According to him, he took the risk and admitted that it was a scam. The client demanded him to send his real picture so he could see him. According to him, he hesitated by finally sent his picture. According to him, the client asked him why he’s scamming and he told the client about his economic situation (no jobs, need to take care of family, economic hardship). According to him, the client sent him $2400.00 and asked him to stop scamming and establish a little business to help himself. According to him, the client showed him that good person still exist in this world and he feels he doesn’t have to continue the scam because it will be a big sin and God will put him in hellfire if he doesn’t stop. According to him, God sent the client to him to save him from the troubles of scamming.