Interview 3 
Shatter Corolla (Pseudonymize) is 32 years old, married with 3 children. He has been in the scamming industry for 7 years. He lives in this house with his family. He is a leader in the scamming industry. While he has other scammers working under him, he doesn’t have anybody he is working for. But he do collaborate with some scammers in Nigeria. The interview took place in his house
Shatter Corolla notion of illegal and immoral and their differences
Shatter Corolla believe that illegal activities are associated with activities that are punishable by police and law enforcement agencies and immoral activities as behavior that is written in the Quran as ‘haram” (forbidden). To Shatter Corolla, there are more differences between illegal and immoral activities than similarities. He gave an example of alcohol consumption to represent the differences. He mentioned that, whereas it is not illegal to consume alcohol in the country, it is immoral to take alcohol in his religion. Example: 
“You know something illegal is not like is also immoral.. if you think something is illegal so it is also immoral, you are indirectly saying that our religion and the law in this country is the same.. or you are saying that police officers and God’s angels are the same…I am saying that simple because, the police officers are looking for criminals and God’s angels are also looking for bad people…so illegal is not the same like immoral because illegal is something which is wrong to government or the police people and immoral is for God and His Angels.. let’s take for example.. in this countries you can alcohol more than 100 bottles a day self, police people will not mind you but if you drink small alcohol God will punish you.. So these things are totally difference my guy…That’s it hahaah”
He further explained that illegal activities sometimes become accepted in the society but immoral activities will continue to be immoral since immorality is the law of God. He mentioned that illegal activities are defined by people and some leaders like politicians in the country and that immoral activities are defined by God and that immoral codes are universal (global) and not in the country. For instance:
“This illegal things we are just talking about, sometimes something will be illegal and finally it will not illegal again because everyone will be doing it and nobody talk about it again…. For example, you know at first if you pick a person on your motorbike and the person is not wearing helmet, the police will arrest you and take your money but people did not stop doing it.. Now, nobody care about it… everyone is doing it even police. The thing is that this illegal people, example the politicians will tell the police the arrest people about something and when thing is no longer their interest, they forget… But for immoral things, it will always be immoral even if people do it. This immoral thing is everywhere and nobody can change it…”
Shatter Corolla view on whether people should strictly obey the law and moral codes and conditions to going against them
Whereas Shatter Corolla believes that it is important to obey the laws and the moral codes, he does not believe that people can always do that. He explained that, laws are formulated to protect the country and its people and that moral codes are formulated to protect every individual in the world whether in the same country or other countries. He stressed that if a person must even behave wayward, it is better to be illegal than to be immoral, believing that illegal is only going against one’s country but immoral go against the entire universe including human beings, animals, trees, and nature. For instance:
“To be honest my brother, it is good if you can obey the laws and the Qur’an but the qur’an is the most important one…I said that because, the country make the laws so that it can correct our life so that we will not hurt each other.. the law can also make people to pay for the wrong things do that so I believe is good to obey all of them… Yes, is even the important one. You have to follow the moral life because when people do immoral things, they affect everything and everyone in this world… they will affect animals, trees, and everything… that is what the Qur’an said…So is good to obey the laws and the Qur’an too..”
In as much Shatter Corolla believes that it is important to obey the laws and the moral codes, he also believe that humans will always go against them (laws and moralities), believing that human beings are not perfect and that social conditions will always make people to act immorally or illegally. He added that, because God knows that human beings are not perfect and they will always act immoral, God made Himself a forgiving God so that when human beings act immorally, they can ask for forgiveness from Him. 
“Mma bia (my brother), this I  know is important to obey the laws and the Qur’an but can we always follow them? Is hard to do that because we are human beings and we are not like God. Even God know that we are human beings and we will always disobey him. That is why he is all Forgiven. If you do something wrong and you pray to God, He will forgive you”..

He gave an example that sometimes people needs to survive but the jobs are not always available because jobs are always given to people who know politicians. And that the only way to survive is to do sometime illegal or immoral to survive. Pointing to commercial sex workers, scammers, drug dealers, and thieves,  Shatter Corolla mentioned that all those people are doing that to survive because there are no jobs for them. He mentioned that if those people had jobs, perhaps they will not do what they do because its illegal and immoral. He mentioned that if those people who act immoral or illegal to make money don’t do what they do and happen to die starving, God will punished them for not doing something to survive. He also added that, some immoral and illegal things can be justified. According to him, when someone kills another person’s brother, mother, sister, or father, the victim can take revenge and its understandable. He explained that even though killing is very bad, but killing somebody who has also killed another person is not bad. He quoted a phrase from a musician, saying “do me, I do you, man no go vex” (meaning retaliation is not nether a crime or a sin). For example:
“Mma bia, life is not easy and that is why people cannot stop doing wrong things. If you don’t do wrong things you can survive. You see some of this prostitutes, thieves, and Gameboys, they do it to survive because life is not easy in this country…. no jobs. if you don’t do thing to survive.. when you know you can do and you didn’t do it to survive and die from that, I am telling you, God will punish you for that. Yes, something is also about paying somebody back… yes, like revenge’….
He further argued that during the time of the messengers of God, Prophets of God had to go to war to kill their enemies. He explained that killing is bad but these Prophets had to kill because it was necessary. Finally, he mentioned that sometimes being immoral or illegal can help people solve social problems. 
Shatter Corolla recent involvement in Illegal and immoral activities
According to Shatter Corolla, since he is also a human being, being immoral and illegal has always been something he is doing. He mentioned the example of doing drugs (tramadol and wed), sexual intercourse with different girls, and scamming. He said that though he understands that doing drugs, scamming and all those things are immoral and illegal but he does them because is better for him to do them and survive than to die with frustration. According to him taken tramadol helps him in many ways, including helping him to stay awake throughout the night to do his scamming business and helping him to have good sex. He also explained that the drugs sometimes help him to overcome the guilt that comes with the immoral activities. He mentioned that, in the country, you either survive on something like scamming or the likes of it or you do hungry. According to him, he will not lie down and watch his family to suffer when he knows he can do something to help them and himself. 
Shatter Corolla view of scamming as immoral or illegal
Shatter Corolla believes that scamming is both illegal and immoral and that it is uncontrollable business for them. According to him, even though scammers have connection with police officers and bankers and are not usually apprehended, scamming is still illegal. He also mentioned that scamming is indisputable immoral and he is aware of it. He added that, it is easy to escape the illegal aspect of scamming, but it’s very difficult for him to escape the guilt when taking somebodies money knowing that he is deceiving them. For instance;
“Mma bia, you don’t need to know about Islam before you say that this game is immoral. This business is illegal and is immoral.. a lot of people don’t even care about it again because they get a lot of money… you know, we know police and bank people so they don’t arrest us.. plus the country don’t even care about gameboys.. because we don’t steal from this country. But the truth is that, the game is bad Mma bia. You can scam and they will not arrest you but my brother, I can’t sleep at night because I fear the punishment of God..I can’t stop feeling bad inside me. But what can we do…. We don’t have option..”
 He further mentioned that no scammer is comfortable with the scamming but the scamming is the better option. He stated that, robbery, stealing, and other illegal activities can get them kill but with the scamming, they only have the guilt to deal with. He mentioned that though some of the scammers think that the white people stole from Africa during the colonial period, he does not subscribe to that. He also added that sometimes the scamming itself isn’t the problem but the way scammers spend the money is the problem. According to him, some scammers get the money, use the money for other illegal and immoral things – making the scamming to look more dirty. He said that some scammers, after getting money will buy guns and start robbery too and having sex with people’s wives. Finally, he mentioned that scamming is illegal and immoral but it is necessary for him and his family to survive and that he hopes that God will forgive him after all. He also said, he does not want to die scamming. He hopes to stopped scamming and depend on his legitimate businesses. For instance;
“My brother, you see those boys who say that the white people steal their gold from the forefather, they are fools… those who steal the gold from your forefather, are they the same people are you stealing? Or are you your forefather?..For me, I know this game is wrong but I am doing to survive and I am praying that God will forgive me because my brother, it is not good… if afa nima (religious leaders) tell you the sin of this game we are going, you will not even come close to it, not to talk of doing it…. God forgive us my brother…”
Shatter Corolla view on victimhood, whether just white people or blacks, or Ghanaians, or Even neighbors
Shatter Corolla mentioned that even though his clients are usually foreigners, clients need not to be whites or foreigners. He said that anybody who is online, they (scammers) can scam each a person. However, he mentioned that scamming foreigners is more lucrative and easy that is why he does not have local clients. He added that he’s clients are usually from UK, USA, Canada, Australia, and anybody who can speak English. Shatter Corolla added that, scamming foreigners has an advantage over scamming local people. According to him, the most important thing about the scamming is the distance between the scammer and the client. He noted that because the clients are faraway and are in foreign country, they cannot easily ask you to meet them in-person for some kind of transactions, or dealings. He said, foreign clients can only keep hoping to meet scammers in the future and the more they wait to meet scammers, the more they scam them.
He mentioned that for the local clients, they don’t have enough money to give scammers, and they can easily asked you to meet them in-person. Secondly, the kind of stories given to foreign clients to take money cannot be given to local clients. He mentioned that without the distance between them and the clients, the scamming would have been difficult because nobody will agree to send you huge sums of money when they can easily meet you in-person. According to him the scamming is largely dependent on buying time from the clients, and given them reasonable stories that will make them to believe that you will meet them and they will benefit more than they are given to you.
He mentioned that though some scammers, especially the starters use local clients to get little amounts of money for internet bundles, food, and some petty things. He mentioned that if a scammer wants to enjoy scamming, foreign clients are the best because foreign clients have more money and are faraway. He also argued that foreign clients can easily trust scammers stories than local clients. Another thing he mentioned about the need to scam foreigners is that he believes that the foreign currency has a high value and that receiving few 100s or 1000s of dollars from clients can give a scammer a big amount of money in Ghana. For instance:
“For me I think foreigners are easy to scam because they are faraway and can keep given them stories and they will be hoping to meet you one day.. also, when you take the foreign money, you can change it for more money in Ghana instead taking money from somebody in Ghana. Maybe that person is also struggling like you…plus, this white people, they can easily trust you and send you the money… oh black man is difficult to trust somebody, especially he has even seen you physical… No, not all foreigners, those who speak English… but some Gameboys still chat with some white people who don’t know English.. me, I don’t like that because its difficult to be using google to be changing the language and chatting”..
Shatter Corollla insisted that it’s better to scam white people, especially old people than to scam black people. He argued that because scamming is morally wrong, its better to scam somebody who can easily forgive you than somebody who will never forgive you. He believes that old people can easily forgive than young people.
….scamming the white people is far far better than trying to scam a black man.. my brother, the thing is that, do you know that this white people they can easily forgive you when you tell them the truth?..I’m telling you, if you scam them you do just tell them the truth, they will forgive you, especially the old women.. so my brother, for me, I prefer this white people… if you scam a black man, my brother, straight to hell… because he will never forgive you…I’m telling you bro.. is not easy at all…..
Shatter Corolla attitude to Clients
Shatter Corolla mentioned that romance scam is the one that interpersonal stories are exchanged and that it is only under romance scam that scammers get to know the life history of clients. According to him, often time, when he gets to know his clients during scamming he feels bad, especially when the client’s past experience is sympathetic. He also mentioned that sometimes he feels bad when he realized that the client doesn’t have enough money and struggling to get the money for him. For instance
“you know we have different way of scamming… when you scamming, the dating scam is the one that you talk to the client about your life and she will also tell you about her life.. sometimes, when you talk to them and they tell you about their history, you will feel very bad and you will even want to stop scamming them because they suffer in life and they are telling you about it so that you can make them feel good…for example, I met a women and she was very kind, respectful, and helpful, and when she told me about how she grew up without father and mother and the way it affect her life, I couldn’t continue chatting with her that day because I felt so bad. She said she was raped and treated bad until she met me…”
However, Shatter Corolla mentioned that, even though he feels bad for these group of clients, he could never asked them to stop sending him the money or stop scamming them because without them sending him the money, he and his family cannot also survive. According to Shatter Corolla, even though clients suffer financial loses and heart breaks, he also suffer the guilt of scamming. According to him, the guilt is difficult to deal with but he hopes that God will forgive him for scamming. However, he added that he never feel guilty of scamming a rich client because  he believes that scamming a rich person will not harm the rich person. He explained that scamming a rich client is not that bad as compare to it being good, arguing that scamming a rich person is just taking your share of the money that God has given to the rich man. He believes that rich people in this world are keeping the money of the poor people and that, taking the money from the rich client is a good idea. 
Shatter Corolla Ways of dealing with guilt
According to Shatter Corolla, feeling guilt is part of scamming and dealing with it is hard. According to him, When he feels guilty about scamming someone, he tries to forget the feeling and to pray to God to forgive him for doing what he is doing. He mentioned that, when he feels guilty, sometimes, he will give ‘sadaqat (charity) to somebody who is poor so that he can also boost on the good things he’s done for the poor. According to him, he scams because he needs the money to survive and he knows a lot of people are also suffering like him. According to him, helping those around him who are suffering is another way to stop feeling the guilt. Shatter Corolla mentioned that he feels better when he gives money or solve the problem of the needy people around him. 
…bro, like the way I was saying, if you like, if you do it..we all know that is bad. So if you do this you will feel bad..but you can do anything about it.. that is why me, I prefer the old white women…. For them if you just scam them and you tell them, they will just forgive you..but me sometimes, like I can just feel bad inside because of this scam.. when I feel the bad, I will just give ‘sadaqa to somebody so that my good things will increase. Because when we die, God will put our bad things like this and the good things like this, if you good things are more than your bad things, you’ll go to heaven and if the bad ones is more than the good ones, you will go to hell..so me, if I just feel bad, I will just give money to some poor person….